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Sears dishwasher installation - am I being scammed?

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  • Dec 4th, 2011 4:39 pm
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[OP]
Sr. Member
Nov 30, 2006
641 posts
25 upvotes
Toronto

Sears dishwasher installation - am I being scammed?

We bought a dishwasher from Sears last week. Decided to go with their installation/removal of old dishwasher plan for sake of ease. Anyway, buddy comes by today to remove the old machine and install the new one. Says the existing connection is a hose (rubber) that is too big for the new unit and that a braided connection is required. Then he says that there is a potential problem because the valve to kill the water to the DW (under the sink) is an old style (with gasket) that will ("90% chance") leak once the water to the DW is turned back on and that what I need is a new ball valve. He then goes downstairs to look at my water service (says we'll need to shut of water to the whole house) and says that I do not have a shutoff valve to kill the water to my house (which seems true, the only valve on there just turns off the exterior hose faucet). Guy says without a master shutoff valve I would be unable to turn off the water to my house in the event of a burst pipe.

Upshot is that he says he will have to come back on the weekend and prior to his arrival I will need to get the city to turn off my water service (requires three hours notice). These additional repairs will cost $225 - $250.

Is this on the level? It is an older house.
10 replies
Deal Expert
Oct 6, 2005
16420 posts
2080 upvotes
Master shutoff valve is nice to have ... especially when you need to cut the water ;)

Not sure about the other stuff.
Member
May 8, 2003
246 posts
21 upvotes
Dishwasher only uses hot water. You should have a shutoff for the hot near the tank. If not how did they install it in the first place?

I also bet that there is a main shut-off too. Mine was in the wall where it entered the foundation. Very small and easy to miss.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 18, 2007
3386 posts
425 upvotes
Valleywood
Regarding DW shutoff valve. As an older valve it may leak for a while once it is reopened. It is very common for an older, rarely used valve to leak around the stem. (And it is just as common for a plumber/installer to point out this leaking and suggest replacement.)

Here are two solutions - 1) tighten packing nut immediately above valve body. A quarter to one-half turn should do. 2) repack valve stem - which is what the installer can do.

In the interim, if a small container can be placed under the valve, then use this to catch any drips. These drips will likely stop in a day or two.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 27, 2007
1013 posts
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Oshawa
As a plumber myself I'd say these are all valid suggestions. If there is not main water shut off I would definitely have one installed. Be carefull though, the city will come out and turn off the water but they don't tend to hang around waiting for the work to be done, so getting it turned back on when you want can be tricky. You may be a few hours without water.
The prices seem reasonable so no I don't think your being scammed.
Deal Addict
Dec 26, 2005
2798 posts
24 upvotes
Mississauga, ON
Gedge wrote:
Jan 8th, 2009 5:13 pm
We bought a dishwasher from Sears last week. Decided to go with their installation/removal of old dishwasher plan for sake of ease. Anyway, buddy comes by today to remove the old machine and install the new one. Says the existing connection is a hose (rubber) that is too big for the new unit and that a braided connection is required. Then he says that there is a potential problem because the valve to kill the water to the DW (under the sink) is an old style (with gasket) that will ("90% chance") leak once the water to the DW is turned back on and that what I need is a new ball valve. He then goes downstairs to look at my water service (says we'll need to shut of water to the whole house) and says that I do not have a shutoff valve to kill the water to my house (which seems true, the only valve on there just turns off the exterior hose faucet). Guy says without a master shutoff valve I would be unable to turn off the water to my house in the event of a burst pipe.

Upshot is that he says he will have to come back on the weekend and prior to his arrival I will need to get the city to turn off my water service (requires three hours notice). These additional repairs will cost $225 - $250.

Is this on the level? It is an older house.
Are you being scammed? I would say no. There should be a water shut off valve installed where the service comes into the house, near the water meter, that enables the service to be shut off to service any taps or toilets in the house.
He is also correct about the shut off valve servicing the dishwasher. In my experience, hot water valves are more likely to fail before a cold water valve.

But the question is, being an older house, who are you going to call or blame if this existing dishwasher valve begins to leak a day, a week, or a month after the install of the new dishwasher? It is an older existing valve, and will not be impacted by the install of the new dishwasher and not covered by any form of warranty.
[OP]
Sr. Member
Nov 30, 2006
641 posts
25 upvotes
Toronto
Whitedart wrote:
Jan 8th, 2009 6:30 pm
But the question is, being an older house, who are you going to call or blame if this existing dishwasher valve begins to leak a day, a week, or a month after the install of the new dishwasher? It is an older existing valve, and will not be impacted by the install of the new dishwasher and not covered by any form of warranty.
Wouldn't the new ball valve connected to the new braided hose (as the installer is suggesting) take care of this?

Thanks to all who have responded!
Deal Addict
Dec 26, 2005
2798 posts
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Mississauga, ON
Gedge wrote:
Jan 8th, 2009 6:49 pm
Wouldn't the new ball valve connected to the new braided hose (as the installer is suggesting) take care of this?
In that case, with the new valves installed, yes it should then be covered.

I guess I was reading into the original message a reluctance to have the valves installed, given the cost involved.

Gedge wrote:
Jan 8th, 2009 5:13 pm
and that what I need is a new ball valve. He then goes downstairs to look at my water service (says we'll need to shut of water to the whole house) and says that I do not have a shutoff valve to kill the water to my house (which seems true, the only valve on there just turns off the exterior hose faucet). Guy says without a master shutoff valve I would be unable to turn off the water to my house in the event of a burst pipe.
Having a main shut off valve installed at the same time would be a very good idea, if one is not present at the moment. It will certainly remove the need for the city to shut off the water at the street line if a further plumbing/water line issue occurs in the future.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 2, 2009
1344 posts
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[quote="Whitedart" post_id="8040059" time="1231457423" user_id="36817"]Are you being scammed? I would say no. There should be a water shut off valve installed where the service comes into the house, near the water meter, that enables the service to be shut off to service any taps or toilets in the house.
He is also correct about the shut off valve servicing the dishwasher. In my experience, hot water valves are more likely to fail before a cold water valve.


I have to agree,with whitedart,I work in municipal water works and install water meters in homes, in order for us to change out the old meter we make sure that the home owner has a main water shut off in the house just before the meter. in order to get that done you will have to phone the city and ask them to shut the curbstop off in your front yard, so the plumber can install a new valve.

Even if you have a pipe burst in your house then you can shut the water off.
Newbie
User avatar
Oct 1, 2007
22 posts
1 upvote
If you need to call the city to shut off the water on the street, you can do it yourself! I needed to replace my shutoff in the basement, so this required that the city come and shut off the water outside. The guy that came was great! He showed me that its that round thing, usually in your driveway or on your lawn somewhere. Usually, your snow shovel will find it in the driveway as the pavement often sinks around it. Anyway, you remove the bolt in the center and then you pop off the cover to see down the hole. He had about a 3 foot long pipe with a slot cut through the base. The other end had handles like a bicycle handle bar on it. You simply lower the tool down the hole and when it hits bottom, you turn it slightly until it "drops" down. The shutoff valve drops into that little slot and then you simply turn it a half turn to open the valve or close it. You could easily make this tool with a broom handle or something similar. It doesnt' take much to turn the valve, so it doesn't have to be strong! My guy was very cool and since it was Friday and I was his last stop, he offered to leave the tool behind and said to leave it by the front door and he'd pick it up Monday morning. So, I did the work in my basement, turned the water back on in my driveway and voila! Once I saw how it was done, I smacked myself on the forehead! Who knew it was that easy?
Deal Addict
Dec 10, 2008
1678 posts
556 upvotes
Kitchener
CorvetteL82 wrote:
Dec 4th, 2011 12:21 pm
If you need to call the city to shut off the water on the street, you can do it yourself! I needed to replace my shutoff in the basement, so this required that the city come and shut off the water outside. The guy that came was great! He showed me that its that round thing, usually in your driveway or on your lawn somewhere. Usually, your snow shovel will find it in the driveway as the pavement often sinks around it. Anyway, you remove the bolt in the center and then you pop off the cover to see down the hole. He had about a 3 foot long pipe with a slot cut through the base. The other end had handles like a bicycle handle bar on it. You simply lower the tool down the hole and when it hits bottom, you turn it slightly until it "drops" down. The shutoff valve drops into that little slot and then you simply turn it a half turn to open the valve or close it. You could easily make this tool with a broom handle or something similar. It doesnt' take much to turn the valve, so it doesn't have to be strong! My guy was very cool and since it was Friday and I was his last stop, he offered to leave the tool behind and said to leave it by the front door and he'd pick it up Monday morning. So, I did the work in my basement, turned the water back on in my driveway and voila! Once I saw how it was done, I smacked myself on the forehead! Who knew it was that easy?

This is terrible advice... no offence... but if you break the valve when you shut the water off, you're looking at 10 grand + to get it fixed, if you have a newer house, and are pretty handy, i would say maybe... but definately with an older home, I would never recommend turning the water off yourself... $70 or whatever they charge will be well worth it to save a huge possible bill...

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